Helping Cheaters be Better Players

Anyone who’s been reading my works for a while knows I’m generally a positive and helpful guy. Sometimes, I feel the need to discuss a topic out of character for myself. I wrote this over a year ago, got some feedback from community members like Stelek, SinSynn, TastyTaste, Thor, Lauby and Loq and rewrote it, but never posted it. Recently, I decided that writing at the HoP provided a readership who might appreciate this article more than my usual and rewrote it again.

At some point, we’ve all probably played someone that we might be quick to label “CHEATER!!!1111~” I’ve written this article to address some of the issues that arise and offer advice on how to handle them.

We gamers traditionally come from a passive stock, which makes handling these kinds of problems really awkward. Often times we either just let it happen or overreact beyond what’s reasonable. Keep in mind, the people we’re playing with most of the time aren’t just strangers at a gaming club – they become our friends and acquaintances, which makes an afternoon of gaming a whole lot more fun. We don’t want to leave a gaming session fuming at people who in any other social gathering are a great time to be around.

So, in the interest of having more fun at your FLGS and saving friendships, lets look at my first kind of “cheater”…

*DISCLAIMER* – I give some examples of cheating in this article. Wasn’t sure if I would, but I want to point some things out to gamers who might not exactly realize these things are going on.


Not having a firm grasp of the rules is somewhere we’ve all been at one point – it’s just a part of learning. If you’re both new to a game, you’re probably making just as many mistakes as your opponent, so cut them some slack.

Your opponent is new to the game? Politely help them learn. Any mistakes they make in their favour are probably balanced by the stuff they’re forgetting their units are capable of. Your grasp of strategy and list building should offset the benefits your opponent might be gaining from their mistakes.

Even experienced gamers make mistakes. This can often be caused by the fact we tend to learn from each other. A whole gaming club might have a small detail wrong until someone points out the mistake. “Oops.” Again, focus on correcting behaviour, not on the wrong.

Examples of mistakes and how to handle them…

Game Rule Confusion

Just playing the game can be confusing to new players. Defer to the judgement of the more experienced player and check for yourself afterwards. Basic rules are usually pretty quick to look up. If the rule is confusing or vague, you might be better off rolling a die and handle the rule according to whoever wins for the rest of the game, then look it up later.

FAQ / Errata / Forums

When you’re looking for a ruling after a game, these are great resources. Print these off and keep copies with your rule books. Be sure advice from forums are from an employee of the company.

Army Rule Confusion

If you’re new, I always recommend focusing on learning your own rules first, rather than worrying about your opponents.

When you’re learning or if you haven’t played in a while, take the few seconds to double check a rule before using it.
Passively Cheating

Always give the benefit of the doubt – Passive cheats can be honest mistakes by people who don’t know better and haven’t been shown the error of their ways.

That said, passive cheats get on my nerves because a lot of these fall under the category “ought to know better.”

The difference between making mistakes and passive cheating is it’s usually done by people who’ve been playing for some time, have bad gaming habits that often work in their favour and are too lazy or competitive to do anything about them.

Nip this behaviour in the bud during regular play, otherwise we’re going to end with a confrontation during a tournament or at a key moment of a game when tensions are high. These situations often involve egos unable to admit their mistakes, being polite is always the best idea.
Examples of mistakes and how to handle them…

Measuring Front to Back for Movement

This comes down to simple math. When moving, always measure from and to the same point on an edge of the base. If you measure from the front of a base to the back of the base, then you’ve actually gained the base’s width in extra movement.

The tape-measure “slide”

This is where a player measures his movement, but as they pick up and move the model, the tape measure moves forward too. I’ve seriously seen units gain 3-4 inches of bonus movement from this.

There’s little to correcting this behaviour besides politely pointing out something like “I think your hand slipped” and to measure from where the mini was / the rest of its squad is to show them their error. Read “Measuring Threat Ranges” lower down for a better way of dealing with this in tight or game-critical situations.

As an active cheat, this is actually a form of “sleight of hand.” When players move models, your eyes watch the hand picking up the model and moving it. You’re not paying attention to the end of the tape measure.
Getting Carried Away

I can’t stress this enough, cheating is often someone just forgetting the rules. It’s natural that when we rush, we make more mistakes. Timed or close games especially.

SLOW DOWN. Breathe, walk away for a moment, pause to double-check a stat on your army list, check your Facebook – do something to clear that fog from your head that’s not letting you think straight OR suggest your opponent does.

Maybe you / they don’t belong in a timed tournament if it’s too stressful.
Miscounting Dice, Rolling too Many

Instead of counting, remove all the dice that don’t meet the number you’re after. This forces you to slow down and makes missed dice stand out.

Rolling Dice into other Dice

Someone rolls a couple dice, but they accidentally roll into other dice. If you’re concerned, ask for a reroll. Another fix for this is to roll into a box or a cup, though this doesn’t give dice much of a chance to really roll.

Activating a unit multiple times on one turn

Some people have problems remembering what’s activated on a turn. Usually this happens if they have a bunch of the same unit, a large army or bounce around activating units all over the place. Sometimes you hear things like “Oh, wait – did these guys already shoot? Hahaha”

Use activation tokens – a little piece of paper, bead, whatever, that gets placed next to a unit once its taken its turn.

Privateer Press Arc Markers

Which way is this model facing?

If you play Warmachine / Hordes, just paint your arcs. Now.
Which models are wounded?

If a unit of models has health boxes / wounds, or you have multiples of the same model with health, paint numbers or symbols on bases, with corresponding markings on rule cards or army lists.
Template “Jitters”

Templates can be a huge pain sometimes because it’s often a subjective question of what’s hit. Your opponent always wants more and you always want less. Usually a relaxed approach is best when dealing with templates – it’s not a perfect system so “close enough” is usually fine.
Transport Teleportation

Essentially, this is where an opponent has multiple transports and is less than honest about which unit is where until it’s time to disembark. Army sheets should have a clear method of marking what units go with what transports.

Actively, some people feel very strongly that they don’t have to tell their opponent what units are in what transports (Same types of people that won’t show you their rules.) and use this as an excuse to deploy transported units wherever it would be most convenient.
Hidden Rules

Did I just mention people who won’t share rules? Seriously, I’ve run in to this. Some people feel that if you want to know what their army can do, you should learn it between games and there’s nothing that says they have to provide you with their rule book during a game. There has to be some level of trust, but if you suddenly want to question something and they flat out refuse to show your their codex, that isn’t ok.

“Black Backed” card sleeves

I love how Privateer Press provides cards with all the rules. This is a fantastic way to manage your army list and use erasable markers on plastic card sleeves.

When rules are printed on both sides of the card and one side is blacked out, these are just your opponents method of going out of their way to say “I’m not interested in what’s written on these cards.” It makes it a hassle to pull the card out of the sleeve to check something, so odds are, some things don’t get checked.

Spin to Win

This is really the fault of a game designers, but when there isn’t an exact base to move, liberally turning vehicles can end up providing a little extra movement as long fronts end up further over where the sides were. Squeezing in rotations is also apparently a tact in FOW to optimize firing angles when one might already be out of movement.

Dysfunctional Gear

If your opponent’s using gaming aids that are questionable, offer them the use of your own. Stuff like cardboard templates roughly cut, difficult to read tape measures, pens that don’t mark well, etc.
Actively Cheating

If you fall in to this category, I’ve got no time for you. Active cheaters go out of their way to ensure the win. These people are cheaters by the definition of the word, no matter how they try to defend it. They’re constantly making “mistakes”, nearby rules / stats / cards are basically decoration even if they’re “looked” at, (I’ve watched people check rules then do / read the wrong thing.) you’ve got to watch their tape measures closely and add up their dice too. A lot of the stuff I just covered in Passive Cheating is second nature to them. Seriously, just don’t play these people.

I really don’t like playing against these types of players because it makes me a bad person. I put on the rules lawyer cap. I don’t allow take backs. I tighten my jaw, buckle down and WAAC even if it means playing a little bit of a psychological game. There’s only 1 person at the moment who falls in to this category for me and I don’t play him outside of tournaments. I know his lists, I roughly know his stats and I know what rules to call him on, which key models to kill and where to place my army so he forfeits by turn 3. Every time. I don’t walk away feeling good, but it gets me out of the situation as soon as possible.

However, Stelek had this to say:

“Not playing people isn’t the best way, because driving people out is not better than including them and changing them.  The community is small enough, and there’s no guarantee they won’t just go to another store and pull their shenanigans there.  Where you might have to play them in a tournament.”

This statement makes me feel bad about my decisions – I don’t like to exclude people. So, I’ve got no good answer here… I feel like there’s only so much you can do to try and correct someone’s behaviour.

Examples of Active Cheats

There are plenty of ways to do what I call “actively” cheating. Here are a couple examples so you get the idea of what I’m talking about.

Loaded Dice

If someone was ever caught with loaded dice, my suggestion would be “banned for life.” If you’re really concerned about this, use a common pool of dice for games or some kind of random number generator.

“If they don’t know the rules, then it’s their own fault.”

Some people will use this to justify their own cheating and they couldn’t be more wrong. The idea is that a player is fully aware that they’re doing something against the rules but keeps doing it because nobody’s calling them out.

Now, this is different to you not speaking up when your opponent forgets something like using an ability of their army or they forget to activate a unit… that’s their own mistake. (Though if they’re learning – give them a hand.)

Suggestions on dealing with active cheaters…

This isn’t a free pass to hassle opponents during a game. We have to play with some level of assumption that they know what they’re doing and aren’t cheating. If you want to learn your opponents armies, do it on your own time instead of impacting the flow of game-play. This is how to handle people who have been fairly confidently identified as an untrustworthy gamer.

“Just walk away.”

Don’t play them.

Be polite, tell them you’re not interested in a game and other people will follow. Eventually, they’ll get the message.

Be Less Forgiving of Passive Cheating

The simple “mistakes” I’ve listed in the passive section become the arsenal of people actively cheating. Don’t let these tricks slide. Call them on it. Ask the tournament organizer to call them on it. Try not to turn the game into a yelling match – but be firm.

Don’t be Competitive

Odds are, everyone else is aware of what a jerk this person is and won’t look down on you if you lose. So, accept the fact that their poor sportsmanship might cost you this game and prepare yourself to just have fun. Don’t let them ruin your day. Try a new strategy or practice an existing one, play a “lolsy” list and just ride it out.

Ask Questions

  • “Wasn’t that just a 10?” or “Oh, I thought I only saw four 5’s?”
    • Before your opponent roles, ask what they need. This will cut down on them scooping up their dice quickly after claiming success.
  • “Wow, that’s awesome, can I read the card?”
    • If something sounds fishy, ask to see a rule.

Pay Attention

If you know you could be facing an active cheater, pay closer attention to anyone you play with the same army and try to remember what it’s capable of. That’ll give you a better idea of whether you need to ask to see an opponent’s rule.

Play Your Best

If you do have to play against someone you feel falls in to this category, like in a tournament, it forces you to play your very best. You need to know their rules just as well as yours. So look on the bright side, these games are great practice.

Don’t be confrontational

Whenever you’re dealing with someone, try to find a positive way to approach it. If you’re questioning a questionable rule, try “Wow! That’s cool, can I read that?” Don’t go on the attack and accuse people of cheating, because often they’re not.

Admit when you’re wrong

Isn’t it terrible when you’ve made a mistake? What you do next speaks volumes. Do you fess up? Sweep it under the rug and hope nobody notices? If you sweep it away, do you correct your behaviour or do you keep playing something wrong because you’re worried someone will notice you’re doing something different?

If the game is over, then at a minimum, you need to check that behaviour. Stop doing whatever you did wrong and move along. If someone mentions it, fess up – “Yeah, I realized I did that wrong.” People make mistakes. If you never admit to them, people will be more likely to assume you’re doing it on purpose.

During a game, fess up. You can do it. Your opponent might want you to take something back if it’s not too longer after. Otherwise, treat it as a learning experience and move on. Also, maybe let them take something back later. Be that  guy, not that guy.

Walk away.

Sure, “It’s just a game,” but to that same logic, your friends shouldn’t be willing to cheat to win if it’s “just a game.” Someone’s going to have to be the bigger person though if you want to save friendships. Some personalities just clash in a competitive setting making it harder to put up with the little stuff.

Measure Threat Ranges

This isn’t just to stop cheating, it’s good advice. I’ll do this when I’m worried about really close calls on movement. If something looks really close, pre-measure.

For example: If I have a model that can charge 8 inches with a 2″ reach weapon, that means its threat range is 10″. Declare what model is charging what and before moving, measure the threat range (Don’t measure the distances between the models) to see if your target is in threat. Either way, you’ve got to move the model up, you can’t just pre-measure for the fun of it.

Obviously, this doesn’t work as well with shooting, since shooting also involves the tactical question of “Will I move my model it’s full move before shooting?” and the fact that the movement might not be straight at the target. If something’s really questionable though, you can make it work. Before moving, declare how far your model will move, add that to the range of the gun. Measure that threat range to check if the shot makes it… then move the model and unit DIRECTLY toward its target the declared distance.

Make Cheat Sheets

If there are particular rules or steps that are confusing, make yourself some cheat sheets that cover these details. That way, when there is confusion, you’re not sorting through a big book, you’re glancing over a sheet of paper.

Spend a Little Time and / or Money to Avoid Angst

Writing up a bunch of tokens on paper or spending the $20 on a bag of pre-mades really isn’t that expensive when you considering how many headaches and heartaches can be avoided. Game aids go a long way to ensuring everything runs smoothly.

Involve Tournament Organizers

Often these folk are just like you and me, but it is there job to handle situations like this. If it’s a local scene, they should be aware of potential problem players and perhaps keep an eye on their games. (Someone even suggested pitting cheaters against each other on purpose.) Even then, if something is bothering you, ask a TO or a more experienced player for help dealing with a situation.

How about you?

  • How do you handle your own mistakes?
  • Mistakes from others?
  • Cheaters?
  • Do you agree there’s a difference between making a mistake and cheating?

You may also like...

  • I really like those mini movement templates for movement now. They have the general range markings on them. There are a variety of types now, and they’re really cheap. Really helps to speed up movement, and helps correct a lot of the “moving tape measure” issues.

    Generally I’ve found almost all instances I’ve encountered in my 4 or 5 years of tabletop gaming as mistakes or errors. There is a shitton of rules to remember in 40k. It’s easy to mix one up.

    I also don’t play in competitive tournaments, just the friendly/narrative ones, where it doesn’t really matter if you win or not (1/3 or 2/3 of the score involve painting over actually winning).

    • Really any game system that’s full of strategy is going to have a bunch of rules and things to confuse you. Most of the time it absolutely is a mistake. But there are 2 players I’ve run across in my time… and they make little effort to check their behaviour at the door. One gets worse as the game gets tight and it’s totally a stress thing, the other is just sloppy right out the gate and does well against anyone unfamiliar with his army, not so well against people who know just how much is being done wrong.

  • I remember this article. Great job on the revision.

    I’m all about openness and honesty. I consider myself well versed in the rules but I screw up too, we all do, and once I realize it I will admit my mistake and that could be during the game. I find that honesty and transparency keeps a game friendly even when mistakes are made. By being honest people will usually shrug of the mistake as long as you’ve learned from it.

    I avoid playing anyone who is a blatant cheater. Sure, you could try to bring them into the fold and reform them but good luck with that. It takes a certain personality to be a cheater and it’s a personality I have no care to associate with.

    • Heh, thanks. I’m not 100% on how it came out, but I think I communicated what I wanted to.

      Honesty really does go a long way. You’re absolutely right that people usually won’t have a problem with you making mistakes as long as you fess up.

  • Bush Craft

    I’ve been guilty of honest mistakes, especially at loooong tournaments when I get fried. Last year at NOVA I ran a camo-heavy Infinity list and had to break down and start numbering the markers mid-game because I was losing track of what was what. I try to be a casual, friendly gamer who will by default defer rules questions to the other player’s favor, but even I can be a “cheater” without even trying.

    Simple solution to avoid hurt feelings: Impose a beer penalty. If I’ve done something accidental like mix up which of two otherwise identical infiltrators can lay mines, then you can count on a free round on me.

    • I love this beer penalty.

      • Drathmere

        I like that idea. I think the hardest thing for people to grok is that we play these games in order to help both players have fun. If only one player enjoys the game, both have failed as players. The art of the game is not in the rules. It is in the people.

  • I’m pretty confident I’ve mixed up which units I’ve cast psychic powers on before. This is a bit of a new thing for me, having really only started playing Nids a few months ago.

    I need to build some counters or fabricate some counters or SOMETHING. There’s just too much to keep track of on the table at any given time to do otherwise….

    • Counters really are a great way to ensure everything is in the forefront of your memory. Even if it’s just stuff written on paper or business card blanks.

      • Last event I was in, I had to write “I CAN GIVE ORDERS!” on a scrap of paper and leave it next to my company commander because he wasn’t pulling his weight.

        • Loquacious

          I swear I’m not laughing. *snort*

        • Thuloid

          Last year I went most of a tournament without remembering to ring my Screaming Bell even once.

    • Von

      I used to use Epic/BFG order dice a lot in WM/H, often for tracking stuff within units. Three arrows? That guy’s run this turn. Arrow and a kaboom? That guy’s charged this turn. Target locked? That guy’s aimed this turn. Really handy for remembering who’s done what in a 12-man unit. The other faces – the exclamation point, the cogwheel and the arrows – tended to be for marking upkeep spells or similar effects. It wasn’t 100% consistent but it jogged my memory very effectively.

  • Thuloid

    I can think of one player–nice guy, plays well, makes solid lists, has some pretty good tournament finishes–who also, I’m pretty certain, cheats now and then. Only when he needs it, but I’ve seen it happen a couple times (only once to me), and heard about it another time. Always the same pattern–when he needs that big magic phase in turns 3 and 4, the roll is always a 10+. Took me a while to realize it was always the same yellow dice he’d roll only for that. Totally fair player outside of that, and he’ll buy you a beer win or lose after a game. I like him–but that dice shit pisses me off. Haven’t played him since I figured it out, though, and I doubt I’ll ever see him in an 8th edition WHFB game again.

    • That reminds me of a player who used to play at my shop. He had his dice in groups. If it was low rolls needed it was group A, high rolls group B, etc. He wasn’t a very nice person either and completely WAAC. Don’t miss the guy one bit.

      • Flat out keeping dice in groups is really dirty. They might not be “loaded” per say, but all dice are flawed. Some will roll higher / lower than others. Sorting them based on these flaws is definitely unscrupulous behaviour.

        • Von

          I used to do it by colour rather than outcome. Hit rolls with blue dice, damage with yellow, location with white; sped things up for those horrible timed turns. There may have been some impact on the outcome since the SmogCon dice were, putting it bluntly, not well made.

          • Well sure. And in Warmachine we use a different die for hit columns if we’re rolling damage against Jacks/Beasts. But I think that’s different to Thor’s example of collecting dice into groups based on how they historically roll.

    • See, that’s that competitive nature shining through. It’s like they justify it or something.. I dunno.. I’d be curious how he talks himself into it.

      • Von

        “Man, I love WFB, but I really don’t want a whole game to collapse just because I rolled low for the Winds of Magic and couldn’t fling the unit-eating doom spells about.”

        Something like that?

        • I guess… but hell, that’s the winds of the dice gods.

          • Thuloid

            Right. It was in part the list he was running. No unit-eating spells–Empire with a light council. He needed big dice turns 3 and 4 to get multiple buffs on his halberdier blocks. You can build in enough magic items to guarantee one turn of big dice, but two or three aren’t really possible.

    • Cedric Ballbusch

      Where I come from loaded dice are a great way to get yourself shot.

      • lol.. I hope I communicated that most of the time, it’s mistakes and laziness.

        Loaded dice are the sort of thing you have to go out of your way to cheat with. Seriously, this kind of stuff is the lowest of the low.

      • Thuloid

        Haha. I wish I had my hands on those dice just once to be sure. And yeah, what bothers me is that he plays an ultra-clean game otherwise. I’ve only ever seen the fishiness in the magic phase, only when rolling for winds, and only a couple times a game in the middle turns. It’s really hard to pick up that way.

        • Loquacious

          I am torn on this. It’s been suggested that to avoid this sort of thing, a TO should have communal dice so no one can claim loaded dice or whatever, I think that’s horseshit. No way am I gonna let you take away my dice.

          But at the same time, I think having a “substitute dice rule” for situations where dice are suspect might be worth considering.

          • Well, a communal pool is more tactful than calling out a specific player for questionable play. It’s not taking away your dice so much as providing dice. But I think if it comes to this, there’s a deeper problem of mistrust. Janky dice should be easy to test. Just roll them a bunch. If someone pulls different dice for specific rolls, those dice are worth testing.

          • Thuloid

            It’s also why I’m enjoying my games that don’t use a d6 right now: XWing, Armada, Infinity. Pretty damn hard to dice cheat with a d20.

          • corrm

            I’ve never played with loaded dice, but there have been some games where I’ve wanted to check my own scatter dice. The look your opponent gives you on rolling your sixth hit in a row is a little disconcerting!

          • All you can really do is offer for them to roll it… or roll it a bunch yourself. It’s no different than getting that Tough roll (armour save) over and over.

          • Thuloid

            Oh yeah. Artillery dice for me, esp. as a Skaven player. Warp Lightning Cannon is…S10 this turn! And so is the other one! And so are my Doomwheel shots…and 20% of your army is dead on the top of turn one. If the dice are with me, the alpha strike is horrifying, and I feel really bad about it.

          • All the better to force players to rage quit and play a game without an alpha strike 😉

  • hive_angel

    What are your thoughts on when a player simply goes to roll some dice and drops the dice from their hand a few inches to six inches to the table and the dice drop to the table without rolling. Let alone the dice don’t get shaken up in the hand prior to the drop. I don’t consider it cheating, but I ask a player to re-roll dropped dice. Anyone ever come across this situation?

    • I don’t think it’s important if the dice shake around in your hand… but rolling is an absolute must to ensure they don’t just drop to the wanted facing. I have seen this, and as you say, just asking for a reroll is an easy way to approach this.

    • Cedric Ballbusch

      A ‘skilled’ dice dropping can get any desired facing at any time. Most people who drop dice lack the perfected skill and are merely lazy. However, a couple good shakes (to ensure the thrower does not know the starting facings of the die (this is important) and a good roll are necessary.

      • Exactly. Sometimes you’ll even see the talented dice “slide” where they hit the table, slide across, but never actually roll.

  • doremicom

    Nice Article!

  • The Warlock

    I can get that forgetting rules happens, editions change, your game is now full of convoluted special rules and changes to entire phases can do that. On the odd occasion I -do- get a game I’m totally cool with letting someone move a unit if they forgot etc provided it works both ways. As an O+G player for fantasy, there’s an ungodly amount of units on the table.

    Although it probably won’t matter soon with the way 40k is becoming P2W, but if your opponent’s army has a bunch of OP sounding rules and they won’t let you see their faction book it’s generally a strong point in the “bullgak” direction. Unless it’s 7th edition WHFB Vampire Counts in which case you’re boned.

    Haven’t encountered a cheater in my gaming experience, but there is a strong difference between making mistakes and cheating- the intent. It’s mainly that mistakes are “oops, brain fart” and that’s cool, there’s X units with Y weapons and Z number of special rules, enabling Q. Cheating is saying Unit C has +3″ on the charge when they don’t, sliding the dice so the 6 is showing, etc.

    While not cheating, would exploiting a loophole count as ‘cheating’ for intents and purposes? Such as the wave serpent spam, or vampire lord in ever-increasing zombie/skeleton horde? Would like to know your thoughts and how everyone else feels on rule exploitation.

    • This is trickier.

      I don’t see min-maxing as cheating. Spamming models can be useful but also tends to have drawbacks. It’s a natural option of any system but it’s just as legit as taking some other broken combination or building around an alpha strike.

      However I also don’t consider that a loophole. Rules lawyers will argue real loopholes and find a way to describe a rule in some convoluted way you would never have thought of. In todays world, a good game designer will address questions about broken or misinterpreted rules in a timely manner. I’m not sure this is strictly cheating or if it’s better to call it an exploit – either way, not sportsmanlike.

  • fiendil

    “Actively, some people feel very strongly that they don’t have to tell their opponent what units are in what transports”

    Those people should write down what is in the transport on a piece of paper, fold it up, and put it on top of the transport. And, if the opponent can’t differentiate between the embarked units by what is written on the piece of paper, then the opponent chooses. Simple solution.

    • Von

      I used to be one of those people, but mercifully I didn’t play that many closed-top transports, and the desire to have some little dudes actually riding around on the models overruled the desire to keep the magic secret. Made my Incubi’s Raider hell on wheels to move, though…

      • fiendil

        Did you play 2nd edition? Ork Battlewagons with the rule that they could carry as many models as you could pile on top of the model. But, if any physically fell off, they took a hit with S dependent on the speed it moved last.

        Never actually played with or against it, but that just sounds awesome.

        • That I did… during the days when Space Marines, Imperials and Orks had vehicles and I had Jetbikes… and rules for Vypers but no models.

          • fiendil

            You didn’t need anything more than Jetbikes, if I remember right. I seem to remember you could do ride-by attacks against infantry, or crash the bikes straight into things at such a pace everything exploded…

            The Falcon got the plastic kit when I was at uni, so somewhere ’95-’98. I’ve still got mine. Still haven’t finished painting it. It’s got chevrons, and the pilot and gunner are finished, but the rest isn’t.

          • I don’t think ramming became a thing until a later revision and I believe it had to be done with Vypers. (Something with an armour value.) On the bright side, pop-up attacks meant my kitbashed Vyper could hide behind terrain, move vertically to shoot, then hide behind the terrain again.

          • fiendil

            I would say “ew”, but I liked doing essentially that with Crisis suits in 4th, when you could walk into the terrain, shoot, then jetpack back behind the terrain where you couldn’t be seen.

            And in 4th, unlike 2nd, there was no overwatch to stop it.

            (To be fair, with the Crisis suits, it was limited to a small number of expensive models, and there were other ways to deal with it.)

  • corrm

    At a recent tournament, I had to spend just about every turn pointing out errors that my opponent was making (that all seemed to be in his favour). It really slows the game down, constantly having to go to the rulebook to correct something you know is wrong. I sometimes feel bad about constantly pulling out the rulebook, but why should they get an advantage for playing the rules incorrectly?
    I also hate dice that have symbols instead of numbers. Generally they replace the 1 or the 6, and I’m sure at times I’ve had opponents change which one it is, either by accident as they have both sets, or on purpose because of the roll. If there was some consistency, that would be fine, but if you are playing with sets of dice that have symbols on the 1 in one set and the 6 in another set, you need to be clearer about which is which.

    • Yeah, I always feel awkward when I’m put in that situation. Do you know if they were a new player? In that case they’re probably just learning, but not really appropriate for a tournament setting. It’s when the person’s been playing a while that it can get really uncomfortable.

      • corrm

        I think he had been playing a while, so it was all just minor little points that I kept having to check.

        • Yeah, I don’t like to get rules lawyery, but all those “little points” make the game what it is and add up.

  • Benderisgreat

    Ever play that one guy who insists he knows all the rules and stats, but is in fact remembering them wrong, and gets SUPER BELLIGERENT when you call him on it? Yeah, that’s lots of fun….

    • LOL, this guy rears his head in all of us after any new revision 😉